15 August 2014

Beth Moore Talks 'Unity' with Word Faith Teacher Joyce Meyer

It was only a matter of time:
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Is this what Beth Moore meant when she claimed to have received personal, direct revelation from God to "stop sowing over and over again in the same field"? Is this the unity of which Moore spoke at James Robison's Awaken Conference? It certainly seems that way:

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Unity with Word Faith heretics, of which Joyce Meyer is the foremost among females? Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry (CARM) offers a summary of some of Joyce Meyer's false teachings along with a helpful refutation of each. (Disclaimer: I cannot agree with some of the praises that CARM's article affords to Meyer, but its highlights of Meyer's false teachings are accurate.) These dangerous teachings include in part:
  • Jesus stopped being the Son of God;
  • Jesus was born again;
  • Jesus paid for our sins and was tormented in hell;
  • Men are little gods; and
  • Joyce Meyer is not a sinner.
Beth Moore may be talking about unity, but it is a worldly form of unity. It is unity at the expense of truth, and it is unity at the expense of the gospel.

Yet, this new alliance does not surprise at all. Aligning with false teachers is to be expected by those who deny the sufficiency of Scripture. With her claims of extra biblical revelation, Moore does exactly that. If the Bible were enough for her, she would not need dreams and nudges and divine playdates.

But without those things, Moore would have to turn to the written, revealed Word of God to validate her ministry decisions, and that would be a difficult task considering such warnings as this:
Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds. (2 John 9–11)
Says Dr. John MacArthur of these verses,
False teachers are not content to remain within the confines of Scripture, but invariably add erroneous interpretations, revelations, visions, words as if from the Lord, or esoteric distortions of the biblical text, while claiming to have advanced knowledge, new truth, or hidden wisdom available only to them and their followers.
But such claims are specious. John plainly states that anyone who alters, adds to, denies, or misrepresents what the Bible says about Jesus Christ does not have God (cf. Matt 11:27; John 5:23; 15:23; 1 John 2:23; Rev 22:18–19). Conversely, the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. This is salvation language; having God and Christ must mean their indwelling presence.
. . . 'Chairein' (greeting) means 'rejoice'. It was a common Christian greeting, conveying the joy believers had in one another's presence. But it is an affirmation of solidarity that is totally inappropriate for false teachers, who have no part in the truth or genuine Christian fellowship. Such emissaries of Satan must be exposed and shunned, not affirmed and welcomed.
False teachers like to decry such treatment as harsh, intolerant, and unloving. But love forbids allowing dangerous spiritual deception to find a foothold among Christians. . . . The church cannot aid or abet with impunity such spiritual outlaws by doing anything that would acknowledge them as Christians. The one who does so—even by doing something as seemingly innocuous as greeting them—participates in their evil deeds by helping them further their deception.
John MacArthur, The MacArthur New Testament Commentary:1–3 John, (Chicago: Moody Publishers, 2007), 235–237.
Beth Moore would do well to heed MacArthur's words and warning.

Yet, if a person claims "God told me," how can anyone argue with such behavior? And so, Moore, with her personal revelations from "God," can essentially do as she pleases—even walk alongside Joyce Meyer in her ministry of deception. After all, "God" did tell Beth to start sowing in a different proverbial field.

What, then, does this reveal? Even though Moore's personal guidance from "God" did not include specific instruction to appear on Meyer's television program, this recent interaction still may serve as evidence that the "God" that has allegedly been speaking to Beth Moore is not the God of the Bible.

Christian, beware. And—dare I say it?—flee from Beth Moore, her teaching, and her influence.

Further Reading
Beth Moore Prophesies a Coming 'Outpouring', Warns of 'Scoffers'
Beth Moore's Twelfth Month Redemption
Beth Moore and Joyce Meyer: Bad Company (The End Time blog)

HT: No Compromise Radio

15 comments:

  1. Erin, I hope you have donned safety gear. In my experience, professing Christians are much more ardent defenders of human teachers who CLAIM to teach the Word than they are of the actual Word of God. I recently lost a plea NOT to use Beth Moore at our church when the leader of Women's Ministry asked me to facilitate one of her studies. We had a very pleasant conversation in which I laid out many problems in Moore's teaching, especially highlighting her claims of direct revelation, and placing her Holy Spirit moments on a par with scripture. It was all waved off because the other lady "comes from a charismatic background, so my understanding of that will be different." Also, she said," for 40 Years, I have tried to just teach the Word, but most people just aren't interested, so I have to use studies like Moore to appeal to them." She pointed out that even the Israelites didnt want to deal directly with God, but wanted Moses to digest it for them--- my heart broke. Since when ought we use the faithless golden-calf worshipping Israelites as a working model for how to study the Word?! If people are not interested in the actual Word of God, it seems likely that they really are not interested in God. I think there are some verses to that effect, especially in Matt 7 ( for the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it)...

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  2. Yes, we saw this coming, since Moore doesn't stay within the confines of Scripture even as a teacher (she historically has taught men for decades, which should've been the first red flag). More and more compromising is setting in for the sake of a wider audience and the applause of men, which is idolatry. If Moore's false position and teachings weren't enough to see her as a false teacher, this should:

    2Jn 1:9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.
    2Jn 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;
    2Jn 1:11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

    Verse 10-11 is KEY. Moore is now guilty of the abominations of Meyer, on top of her own false teachings and "revelations".

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  3. Birds of same feather and all that... Both of these charlatans done untold damage to millions of naive leavenjellycals. The great amalgamation of heresy is happening right before your very own eyes.

    Despeville

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  4. People who defend Beth Moore and others who claim extra Biblical revelation like to use John 10:27, "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me", to argue that God does speak outside of scripture to his followers today. If you point out that Jesus is speaking figuratively (‘sheep’ is a clue) they respond with something like “how is ‘hearing my voice’ figurative” and “if you can’t hear his voice you are not listening or you are not a true follower”. How do we respond when someone uses this verse to argue that God speaks to us today?

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    1. David,

      This passage as the entire argument is a testimony to the Kingship, Stewardship and true and Eternal Divinity of the Son of God. Yes, the Lord teaches that His voice is to be heard but He does not teach that it will be heard as an individual voice for every sheep that they can tune in to at will . Nor does He teach that His voice is to be heard as interlocution, or emotion or a dream. These so popular myths are being imported into this text by confused people and according to their ever popular traditions of men. We know from so many parts of the Word that God does speak through that Word and that is clear, authoritative and sure teaching that cannot be obscured or undermined by this type of blatant and crude eisegesis .

      Additionally, this passage and particularly verse before teaches sovereignty of God and His election unto salvation yet that is never observed nor noticed by Mooreites or Meyerites. Look:

      "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep."
      ~ John 10:26

      Jesus did not say: "you are not my sheep because you do not believe" which is how every Mooreite or Meyerite automatically transposes this text for herself or himself. No, The Lord of Glory says here the EXACT OPPOSITE to popular myths of men. Yet, that is so lost on so many especially when they abuse the text to justify their idolatry of self.

      Despeville

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    2. To listen to his voice is to OBEY him. As in to follow his commands. Do you have any children? Have you not said to them, "Why aren't you listening to me?" They may respond, "Mom, I heard you". And you respond. "I didnt ask if you 'heard' me. are you LISTENING?" To listen or hear in this context is to follow or obey.

      John 8:47 makes the same point. " Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God."

      Is he talking about literal hearing or about 'listening' and obeying. I argue that its the latter. Because the very people he's talking to are HEARING the actual words he's saying... they just aren't obedient. Further look at the context... "43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? 47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”
      See verse 44? They hear the words, but they do not understand. v. 44. They do not obey. But all the while they are 'hearing' Jesus speak.

      And besides all of that. John 10:6 makes it epicly clear that its a figure of speech.

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  5. Pensive
    I had a similar experience at the church where I once attended but with Joyce. It is Pentecostal no surprise (I’m not a Pente, my wife is, and by God’s grace I’m leading her out of that goofy denomination) Anyway, they were doing a "sermon series" on the "Value of the Bible" and one of the messages highlighted a video clip of Meyer being interviewed by R.T. Kendall and Jack Deere about her thoughts on the bible; which I found rich, since Joyce is anything but biblical. I knew about this beforehand and I approached the pastor with my concerns about Meyer’s since I was well aware of her heretical teachings. I told him that because of what she teaches she cannot in any sense of the word, be considered an orthodox Christian. The response: “Well so many women in the church get so much out her books. ”

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  6. I recently posted a warning regarding Beth Moore on my FB and while getting some support, I have also been getting pummeled by Moore fans/supporters. One of the things they are saying is that I am being unbiblical to post these warnings as I should take my concerns directly to Beth Moore first. There are so many articles and information on the web now regarding Moore's teaching and the direction she is heading - has anyone contacted her to confront her about these issues? Is it Scriptural to go to her first with the concerns before warning other believers about her teachings? I don't see in Scripture that when we see false teaching being taught we have to go to the false teacher first before sounding the warning. I guess I'm a bit shaken up with the comments people are throwing at me. I think Scripture indicates we should sound the alarm when we see false teaching or teaching that is dangerous and can lead down a wrong path. But would love to get input from others who are sounding the alarm to see if I'm in the wrong in my approach.

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    1. Twiga,

      You are doing the right and biblical thing. Beth Moore teaching is of public nature and it only follows that it can and should be addressed publicly as well. Furthermore, Mooreites tell you a wrong thing and resulting from their not so blessed ignorance of what Matthew 18:15-17 and particularly 18:15 teaches.

      “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault when the two of you are alone. If he listens to you, you have regained your brother. "
      ~ Matthew 18:15

      This text speaks of PERSONAL SIN and not public, repetitious, escalating false teaching undermining the true faith for so many. Matthew 18:15 would apply to you only if you would know Beth Moore personally and have a knowledge of her sin. Yet again, Mooreites do not grasp that truth and neither they want to grasp it.

      Despeville

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  7. I must say this comes as a shock to me but if you don't mind Erin, could you provide direct quotes where Beth actually says these things? When did she start saying "God told me?" Where is it written that she is teaching extra-biblical revelation? I know Joyce Meyer is a false teacher because I talked about her in my latest book He Who Has an Ear, Who the Seven Churches of Revelation are Today. I quoted her extensively. But in my research on false doctrines and teachers, Beth Moore's name did not even come up. So I would very much like proof rather than conjecture. Could you please provide links or books where she teaches extra-biblical revelation and is there any place where she discusses what she meant by "unity?" This is very upsetting to me as we are having a Beth Moore Simulcast at our church next month and now you have me wondering what is going on with Beth.

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    1. If I may...

      "I’d like to replay it to you in the form of a dialogue because when it occurred, it was as if God spoke every word concretely and audibly to me. In reality, what I’ll describe was expressed in my spirit rather than in my physical hearing. After spending years in relationship with God, seeking what He’s like and how He operates in Scripture, I, like many people, can get a sense of something He’s strongly impressing upon me without “hearing” precise words. When thoughts come to me out of the blue that I’m convinced did not originate in my own mind, if they’re consistent with God’s character and sound like something He would say in Scripture, I USUALLY ASSUME it’s Him. Ultimately, time proves whether or not I discerned the voice correctly. If it produces substantial fruit, I know it was God and I was on target. If nothing comes of it, I probably misunderstood or accidentally ascribed it to Him. None of us are beyond confusing our own thoughts with God’s, no matter how many times we’ve been around the bend with Him."

      Beth Moore, “ So Long, Insecurity” pp. 325-326.


      "God kept repeating a WORD over and over to MY HEART: unbelief. Unbelief! I kept sensing Him saying, “My people are suffering from unbelief!” At the time I felt that this word was a separate message from the material He was beginning to give me for Breaking Free … As clearly as a bell, God spoke to my heart through His Spirit and said, “The answer to your question is the sin of unbelief.” … Suppose I heard God correctly. (I have certainly misread Him before!). Why do you think not believing God personally and lavishly loves us could be a sin?"

      Beth Moore, “Breaking Free,” p. 211-212

      For more in depth analysis of Moore's teaching: http://bit.ly/1l8sx4u

      Despeville

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  8. If that picture were to have a caption, I would give it this:
    Birds of a feather... deceiving the flock together.

    Those who foolishly continue to defend Moore keep diving back into the same tired old plays out of the playbook: pragmatism, appealing to felt needs, misuse of Scripture including misuse of Matthew 18, and when all else fails, ad hom, ad hom, ad hom Moore's discerning detractors.

    Nicely done Erin.

    Pensive, well said.

    Denise, your last statement is the clincher.

    Despeville, nice job refuting the all-too-common Matthew 18 misuse. My husband and I had that one hurled at us when we called out a false teacher this past winter. Sigh, it gets old.

    -Carolyn

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  9. Twiga dont waste your breath. I already contacted them. They are not listening. When Beth Moore went on stage with KathyLee Gifford i contacted them and complained it was teaming up with the world. Wrong. Women of faith wouldnt listen either. I showed them where to see a bio of her where she put her leg up on a man and said i want to ride you. They said she is an actress. Not sin is sin.

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  10. Jesus owned the Kingdom of God. He proclaimed the Kingdom of God. He sees the Kingdom of God. He comes from the Kingdom of God. Why would Jesus need to be born again? Jesus never sinned, and the born again experience is only for sinners. I disagree with Joyce Meyer on this one.

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    1. I certainly agree with kevi. People need to be like the Bereans and test the scriptures instead of burying their heads in the sand. I also disagree with Joyce Meyer's teachings as well as Beth's Moore's extra- biblical revelations. God speaks to us through His Word, not through an audible voice. If people want God to speak to them, then read His Word, People need to wake up !!!

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