13 January 2014

Why Beth Moore and Not Me? The Danger of Claiming to Receive Direct Revelation

photo credit: Delirious? via photopin cc
When God speaks, He does so with authority. He issues no 'lesser' revelation. His words are full and final and they stand for eternity. This is why His Word is so precious. It is unchanging, and it is the sole authority for the Christian. In the Bible, God has revealed all that the Christian needs to know in matters pertaining to life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3). In this Word, He has revealed to us His Son, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He is the Living Word (John 1:1) and He is the final Word (Heb 1:1–2).

Any claim that is made, then, that God continues to speak outside of His Word and deliver direct, personal revelation is one that must be considered with great seriousness. After all, if God always speaks with authority, then such revelations must be perceived to be as inspired as Scripture. Any private prophecy, voice, dream or vision that is claimed to be from God must find a place in the back of our Bibles and our Bible 'reading plans' must be extended to include these words. Mustn't they?

For some, the Word of God as revealed in the 66 books of the Bible is not enough. These are those who find themselves on a constant quest for 'more'. A deeper, more meaningful emotional experience coupled with an alleged 'word from the Lord' often offers precisely what the dissatisfied seeker desires. But what of the one who longs for such an experience, but does so in vain? What of the woman who finds herself in despair because 'God' is 'speaking' to her friend or favorite Bible teacher through divine nudges and dreams but is seemingly silent in her own situation? What are the dangers of claiming to be the recipient of direct, personal revelation from God?

Popular SBC Bible teacher Beth Moore is no novice when it comes to 'hearing' from God. In her book, The Beloved Disciple, she makes the following claim:
Beloved, I am convinced one of our severest needs is pure rest. Not only sleep, but refreshment and recreation. Recently God spoke to me about capturing what He and I are calling "Sabbath moments." Like many of yours, my schedule right now is particularly tough, and I see no time in the near future for a number of days off. God spoke to my heart one Saturday morning while I was preparing for Sunday school: "My child, in between more intense rests, I want to teach you to take Sabbath moments." I wasn't certain what He meant. Just that morning God confirmed His desire for me to drive all the way to the other side of Houston to the medical center to visit a patient with brain cancer. I was very thankful for the privilege of visiting this patient, but I knew in advance it would be tough emotionally and far from restful.
Beth Moore, The Beloved Disciple, (B&H Publishing: 2003), 220.
In other places, Moore has claimed to have received a vision of the "church as Jesus sees it." And when God once said to her, "I’m gonna tell you something right now, Beth, and boy you write this one down, and you say it as often as I give you utterance to say it . . ." well, all Christians should have added those words to the back of their Bible.

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Beth Moore thus has claimed on more than one occasion to have heard from God outside of Scripture. To question Moore's words, then, is ultimately to question the God who allegedly spoke them to her.

That is why claims such as Moore makes in a recent blog post ought to be approached with somber consideration. In a January 2014 post entitled, "A New Year, A New Time," Beth Moore vaguely shares some future plans for her Living Proof Ministries. These changes, she says, are a result of God speaking to her heart in 2012 through the words of another teacher and reinforced by a God-given dream that she experienced one year later in November 2013. Writes Moore,
I have a simple truth on my heart this new year but it is washing over my soul like a waterfall.

I want to obey God.

In mid-November of 2012, God dropped a word so convicting on my heart through another teacher’s lesson that my face instantly burned. . . . This was the word:
"Stop sowing over and over in the exact same field."
I wasn’t looking for it. I didn’t ask for it. I was happy where I was. Like many of you, I like things to stay the same. I loved my circle of relationships and the familiar places I got to serve. I’ve never lost a passion for those places and have often wept with thanksgiving to God for the privilege of walking through some of the same doors again and again. I have a history of long relationships and staying put and that’s how I like things. But I knew God was talking to me. It burned like a branding iron.

Every single day for nearly 14 months, that same word has reverberated in my soul and troubled my feet. . . .

Fast forward 12 months exactly to the most recent November. A year after hearing from God so clearly about sowing further than the field that I’d loved and served in for so long, I had a very disturbing dream. I can count the significant dreams I’ve had through the decades on one hand so I’m not prone to look for messages in my sleep to keep from having to actually pray and read the Bible. That God can speak through dreams is clear in our own Bibles, of course, but for many of us it is unusual. I don’t feel the release right now to describe the dream though I may someday. What I do feel is a strong compelling to share with you what I knew beyond a doubt it meant. I believe that I can either be obedient to God in the faith walk He is setting before me or He will take my voice. I do not feel that it was a rebuke. I felt that it was a warning.

(Source, emphasis added)

According to Beth Moore, God has used a dream to warn her that He will "take her voice" if she does not comply with the word she allegedly received in 2012 to "Stop sowing over and over in the exact same field." Assuming for argument's sake that Moore's claims are true, and thus setting sola Scriptura temporarily aside, the question may rightly be asked, "Why Beth Moore?"

Why has Beth Moore been chosen to receive such clear, direct and personal revelation from Almighty God? Why not me? Why not my best friend or my coworker? Why not my pastor? What has Beth done to warrant such special treatment?

Beth Moore
Herein lies one of the great dangers of these claims. While many Americans may claim that God has, at one time or another, spoken to them, the despair that can overcome a person who hears of these stories and has not had such an experience can be devastating. Those who follow the teaching of Beth Moore greatly respect and revere her. They admire her and because of this, many undoubtedly strive to mimic her Christian walk. But what if some of those women, who long to be as spiritual as Moore appears, have not experienced such intimate conversations with God? What must they be doing wrong? What is lacking in their faith?

The good news for those who have found themselves in this disheartened state is this: God has spoken to you. Do you own a Bible? If so, find it, open it and read it. There before you are the living and piercing words (Heb 4:12) of the one and only true God. These words are final, complete and sufficient. They are God-breathed (2 Tim 3:16–17). Do not seek a temporary experience in the form of a voice, vision, nudge or impression. Seek instead the pure and undefiled, objective truth of our holy God. Even the Apostle Peter, who witnessed the magnificent transfiguration of Christ, had this to say about God's Word:
For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, "This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased"—and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
(2 Pet 1:16–21)
The Christian need not seek for anything more than God has already graciously provided in His Word. This Word will never pass away.
For, "All flesh is like grass, and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls off, but the word of the Lord endures forever." And this is the word which was preached to you. (1 Pet 1:24–25)
This Word is the only truth.
Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. (John 17:17)
This Word brings life.
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. (Rom 10:17) 
This Word reveals to us the only thing that matters in this life and the next, namely, the Lord Jesus Christ.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. (John 1:1–15)
Do you know Him? You may come to know Him through His Word—His Word read, His Word taught and His Word preached. The Spirit works through this Word. Do not belittle it by setting it aside in pursuit of fleeting emotional whims. Do not neglect so gracious a gift.

Further Reading
God Speaks, but How?
Beth Moore's 'Twelfth Month Redemption'
Why Do We Believe the Bible?

86 comments:

  1. You nailed it, and so articulately too. Thanks for this.

    When I was a fairly new Christian, I was invited to a Beth Moore Study. We ladies watched Moore's DVD. Moore told the story of the ratty, longhair man that is titled the Hair Brush, I think. It was a long, involved story all about Beth Moore, but in it she said numerous times that the Lord spoke to her. She said at the start of her story that the Lord 'spoke to her heart' but immediately into the story she said "I've never heard God be so articulate with me. I'm telling you word for word, these words came into my heart" and then repeated the 'conversation' saying several times with God's exact words.

    We know the issues with direct revelation, but here is the part that made me saddest. After this interminable story ended, the ladies who were at the DVD study with me, sighed and glowed in appreciation for this unique relationship Moore has with God. One lady said sadly and wistfully, "I wish I had what she has."

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    1. One lady said sadly and wistfully, "I wish I had what she has."

      Exactly why I felt it necessary to focus on this in this post, Elizabeth. I have heard from others who at one time were misled by these types of teachings and found themselves quite discouraged when God was not speaking to them the way He seemed to speak to other, "more spiritual" women, specifically teachers like Beth Moore. And when you find that your relationship with God is not as intimate as Beth claims hers is, you begin to focus on having those experiences and suddenly, before you know it, the beautiful, sufficient, objective Word of God has fallen by the wayside. What a tragedy.

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    2. I went to the same study several years ago! I remember thinking Wow! What do I need to do to be able to hear God talking like that?

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    3. If you believe in God and live your life for him you have what every Christian has its called salvation .

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    4. Believing in God, which leads to repentence, is all that is truly necessary for salvation. Congrats, your on the team, in the kingdom, through the gate.

      However, there are also works prepared for every believer that we can choose to take hold of or not. Knowing His voice and His Will and His purposes for your individual lives is about really taking hold of all that God has in store, producing real fruit, growing His kingdom, using the gifts He offers to everyone freely, being led by His calling and anointing, and enjoying those fruits and rewards eternally. This isnt just about the free gift of salvation, but about living a life that has Christ as its Head.

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    5. I am not satisfied with salvation alone. I want to go deeper. I want to learn to love my God more and more every day. My God is personal and He loves me and He does speak to me and encourages me and blesses my heart with His words. Yes, by reading my Bible, but also thru His Holy Spirit that He has given me to be my Counselor and my Teacher. I remember as a very new Christian wondering the same things. Wondering if I could hear from God like others did. If I could ever be that "spiritual". It only pushed me to press into Him more seek Him with all I have. But I have come to realize that it is not a level of achievement or an "arriving" at a certain point of, for a lack of a better word, enlightenment, it's about believing that God is personal and desires to always pull us in closer. To believe that He still speaks and that He, indeed, has something to say... to each of us. Don't be discouraged when you hear of others "hearing God", be encouraged that it is possible! That He loves us enough to take the time to speak to us. That He cares that deeply. He is SO much bigger than we give Him credit for. "Now to Him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine according to His power that is AT WORK WITHIN [each one of] US, to HIM be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen!" Ephesians 3:20,21.

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    6. Thank you for speaking out. I think if we dismiss Beth and others as a false teacher, we are in danger of missing out on God's incredible power to direct our lives.

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    7. Every single person has God given gifts, gifts of love, kindness, works etc..

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    8. I just feel that when there is so much confusion about a person and their teaching...then it is a warning and you are to look into it and more than likely .....it's a warning to stay away! We know who the author of confusion is! But I just recently have spoken out against her and I immediately got attacked and was told I am sowing discord into the body of Christ, when really all that I was doing is what scripture teaches...that is to test everything.

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  2. She's not the first and won't be the last. A lot of people on TBN are like this, too. Thanks for revealing this. I have already heard about her false teaching before, also.

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  3. My question is this: Does Beth Moore speak in direct opposition to Scripture? Do her moments with God direct others away from His Truth or do her teachings direct others towards Him.
    God is not limited on this earth. He is able to speak directly or indirectly or to be silent. He is able to clarify or enlighten others. He has called some to be teachers. Beth Moore is a teacher.
    I'm not validating or de-validating Beth Moore's insights from the Lord, but those of us who pray, who submit, who read Scripture, who love Jesus need to know that He does speak to us, be it through scripture, through our own hearts, or through others. He is actively working in our lives. Some just hear differently than others.
    Be careful not to limit God or to idolize men/women.

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    1. To answer your question Anonymous, and if I may, Erin, Yes, Beth Moore speaks contrary to scripture.

      1. She said that Jesus appeared to her in a vision (one in which she did NOT fall down) and He told her directly and specifically to tell the church (acting as prophet now) "My bride is paralyzed by unbelief." First, the church is the bride. if it was unbelieving, it would not be the church. This is a statement contrary to scripture.

      1a. If Jesus appeared to her and said to teach the people "as often as I give you utterance to say it" as Moore said she was instructed, this would be contrary to scripture because Acts 1:11 says the next time we see Him will be the same way He went up. He is right now at the right hand of the Father in heaven, (Mark 16:19 and 1 Peter 3:22) not coming to earth to tell Mrs Moore to teach new things that are not in scripture.

      2. Additionally, Jesus has said the last word. There are no new words. Saying that there are is contrary to scripture. Hebrews 1:1, Rev 22:18.

      Yes Mrs Moore is a teacher, but that doesn't give her license to teach fantasies from her visions as "Jesus told her" in a vision. (1 Cor 8:103). It actually means she is held to a higher standard and a stricter judgment. (James 3:1; 1 Tim 1:6-7).

      God IS limited, in His revelation to us. He can do anything infinitely, but what He has revealed to us is in the limiting pages of scripture. In your quest not to "limit God" be careful not to go beyond what is written.

      Jesus does not speak to us through our heart because our heart is deceitful above all things, who can know it? ( Jer 17:9). He speaks to us thru scripture.

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    2. Great, great response, Elizabeth, thank you. I couldn't have (and probably wouldn't have) said it better myself.

      And just to add: For argument's sake, let's pretend that what Beth Moore says based upon her alleged communication with God is not contrary to Scripture (though, as Elizabeth has skillfully demonstrated, it is) - why, then, would we need Beth Moore's dreams and visions? If a thing can be found in Scripture, why would we go to Beth Moore and not to Scripture to find it?

      God has already revealed Himself to us through the Word. When we go beyond it, we can end up anyplace our deceitful heart desires. A cursory glance at any religious cult ought to demonstrate that.

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    3. I have always been skeptical of Beth Moore because of the contemplative issues, but Elizabeth's misguided response leads me to believe that maybe Moore is legit after all, if this is actually what you have against her. Elizabeth, you are reading your own doctrines and not the bible into your refutation here.

      For example, if you believe that Jesus can not appear to people in visions, because of a supposed prohibition given by the Acts 1:11 statement, then you would be unable to explain Paul's conversion, as Paul refers to Jesus Himself appearing to Paul.

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    4. Elizabeth,
      A couple of holes in your reasoning. You say that Jesus will only appear as He left according to Acts 1:11 and yet He appears to Paul on the road to Damascus after this statement. Also, in God's Word He gives careful instruction as to how to deal with prophetic words, telling us to weigh them carefully. Yes, He has given us the Scriptures and this general revelation is not to be added to or taken away from, but the New Testament has many examples of people who receive specific revelations for a particular instance or time.

      If you do not believe in revelation directly to us from the Holy Spirit then you must also discount Scriptures like Isaiah 30:21, "Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, "This is the way; walk in it." It all should be tested by the Word, but there is a warning not to despise prophecy. This it seems is what you have done by stating that God does not speak through the prophetic any longer.

      As far as the Church not being the Church if it lacks belief, we can learn a lesson from the man who had the demon possessed boy who stated, "I believe, help my unbelief." Many times we can believe, but not as we should. Perhaps that is the case in the Church today.

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    5. I not going to just discount but I say it doe not apply the way you quoted it. You left out the 50% of Isaiah 30:21 "And your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, “This is vthe way, walk in it,” when you turn to the right or when you turn to the left. "
      and put v21 back into context Isaiah 30: 8-33 I say it look more about Israel's rebellion and restoration than a case for direct revelation today.

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  4. Spot on, Erin! The sad thing is that when you attempt to speak to people about your concerns (not even talking about Moore as a person, simply her theology, you are called all sorts of things. Appreciate you speaking about this topic, using the Word as the guideline. Sola Scriptura!

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    1. Appreciate the kind words! God's Word—not our favorite Bible teacher—must be our final authority! Sola Scriptura!

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    2. Amen ! EBenz, You said it perfectly, God's Word must be our final authority !

      Sola Scriptura !

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  5. Yes, we need to measure everything by God's Word, but God according to His Word still speaks to men/women. He has spoken to me many times, and I knew it was the Lord or His Holy Spirit. I think we're playing God when we say someone is or is not hearing from God. If what they say does not counter Scripture, we are not to judge. Did God lead you somewhere in life? How do you know? Did Scripture tell you to move here or there or marry so and so? I believe we don't have a "relationship" like Beth is because we aren't living out our faith. She by no means is perfect nor claims to be. I am not her fan, but I am also not her judge to if she is hearing from God or not. Although when one is raised up as Beth is ... she is more likely to fall. She needs our prayers not judgment.

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    1. What if I told you that God spoke to me this morning and told me that Beth Moore was lying about her dreams and her alleged conversations with God. Who is right? We both say God spoke to us, and by your own words you cannot judge whether I heard from God or not. Yet, God cannot contradict Himself, can He? Ah, and herein lies one of the many problems of seeking to hear from God outside of His clear, objective, authoritative Word.

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    2. Where does the Bible say God speaks to men/woman outside the Bible? Can you prove he has spoken to you outside the Bible?

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    3. Ebenz, it is actually these messy dilemmas that you describe that leads the clergy to drive the Holy Spirit out of the church, rather than have to deal with them using the means God gave us. Where are those with the gift of discerning spirits to tell who is speaking from God and who is speaking from the devil or their flesh?

      Ray, one New Testament example would be Agabus and his daughters, who were prophesying. We see references to some of these prophecies, such as thwarting the famine, but we dont actually see what the prophecy was. Pretty much the bible is jam-packed with prophecies and prophets, many of whom dont seem to do much prophesying within the confines of scriptures.

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  6. Obviously the writer is biased due to a Baptist mindset, which restricts the belief of the gifts of the spirit in operation today - how sad.

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    1. This might be one of the most bizarre "insults" I've ever received.

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    2. Here's an idea.... why don't you and Chris Rosebrough put together a booklet or at least a blog post of your most bizarre insults. I bet that would be hilarious. I enjoy reading/listening to both of you. Keep up the great work! -Deborah C.

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  7. sounds opionionated to me. How do I know you are legit. your man as well as Beth Moore is. Leave it in Gods hands to deal with it.

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    1. You know who else claimed to be visited by Jesus? Sun Myung Moon of the Unification Church. And the Jesus who visited him allegedly gave him a calling to be the second messiah sent to finish the incomplete work of Jesus. Ah, but let's just leave it in God's hands to deal with it.

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    2. There were many, many false prophets in the Old Testament rising up and claiming to hear from God as well. That didnt invalidate the true prophets that were also being raised up. When God warned us that many false prophets would rise up in the last days, He didnt say it wasnt a problem because you could just ignore the gift of prophecy. Quite the opposite! He spoke of the two witnesses that would come "PROPHESYING" and the bible explicitly says to judge prophecy and not quench it.

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  8. The two revelations she claims to have gotten and that were presented, were for her and her ministry. So what if God is asking her to have more restful moments, or even to start sowing to others areas and ministries than just the only one that she has been given to. What are you cautious of, that everyone does not hear God's voice the same way she does? The Bible, over 1/3 of it is filled with a group of people called prophets. They had direct Words from God, and millions of other people (that were God's chosen people) did not. I agree that we all have the Bible, and that everything must be in line with that. I also feel that you do read the Bible and have a grasp of it, so i am confused about you are really addressing, or if you are addressing anything just bringing up a point? If individuals are being discouraged about not having an imitate relationship with God, your post might be how do we build and value are times with God. Not lets question Beth Moore's relationship with God. If God wants to use Moses and Arron, it is his choice, please don't be like to other Israel who said, 'Why is God only using you guy"(found in Exodus), it never ended well for them, and in my heart right now, i now you mean to follow the Lord, and you are just concerned for other believers who are just down. Please encourage them and also point them to hearing from God however He chooses to speak to them.

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    1. God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. (Hebrews 1:1–2)

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    2. "Sabbath moments?" Sabbath is a day set apart.

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  9. I personally do not listen to her studies but this is just my opinion and would like to share it. My belief is that God speaks to us in different ways.And if we have a personal relationship with him we will know if something is from God or not.I do have a problem with seeing other Christians dabble in such things as yoga and some New Age and I do not read the Message bible and I believe if I'm correct Beth teaches from the Message.I don't claim to be a know it all but to say we are not to add anything to God's Word nor take away.If i say the Lord spoke to me through a dream or spoke to my heart I believe it would be personal for me and maybe to share that it may help someone.

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    1. With all due respect, Anonymous, it really doesn't matter what your belief is. What matters is what the Bible says.

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    2. Amen ! EBenz
      you're so right, what matters is what the Bible says.

      Sola Scriptura

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  10. I'm curious.... are you saying that Beth Moore is like listening to Joel Olsteen, or Joyce Meyers? I know what I think about their "teachings" and want to be sure I understand. Are you saying that she doesn't hear from God, and/or that it's not possible to hear directly from him? I'm not being argumentative, I just want to make sure I understand.

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    1. I am saying that the Bible is the sole, sufficient and final authority for the Christian. To seek to hear from God outside of His Word is a dangerous quest. Does Beth Moore teach the false word-faith or prosperity gospel of Osteen and Meyer? Perhaps not. Might her teachings be just as dangerous? In this writer's opinion, yes. And not simply because she makes claims to receive direct, extra-biblical revelation, but because she has demonstrated time and again that she does not rightly handle the Scriptures.

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  11. Anonymous My belief is that God speaks to us in different ways....I do have a problem with seeing other Christians dabble in such things as yoga and some New Age and I do not read the Message bible…
    You believe God speaks in different ways but maybe not through the Message, Yoga and New Age. By what standard then do you judge what is and what is not an appropriate means of communication from the Almighty? A personal bias? I believe God only speaks through the Bible, illuminated by the Holy Spirit. That is what the early church taught and believed. In the second century the Church had a problem with a guy by the name of Montanus who believed in personal revelation from God. If we believe God stills “speaks” as in “God told me” then it’s wide open. Joseph Smith claimed God spoke to him, the JWs get continuing revelation and what about Mohammad?

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    1. examining the foregeries all you want will bring you no closer to understanding the genuine. Instead, you are being left with the false impression that its all a forgery, when it actually isnt.

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  12. while i cant comment on beth moore and am very wary of anything coming out of contemplatives, I do know for absolute certain that many people who I am in fellowship are hearing very clearly and specifically and accurately from the Lord.. I myself have received 2 dreams that were discerned to be from the Lord, which did and still are playing out prophetically, though I dont hear from God in the audible sense as some in our church body do.

    People want to hold up their doctrinal undderstandings of the bible as if it conflates with this, but actually the bible points exactly to this kind of relationship between the God the Holy Spirit and His people. "You cant have revelation, we have the bible!" People should be wary of the fact that this is exactly what Christ encountered in dealing with experts on the bible of His time: the Pharisees, the Sadducees, and the scribes. "You cant have authority! We have our Law! We have our Prophets! We have our Abraham!" And so it goes..

    Personally, God kind of pressured me into giving up cessationism, where I disbelieved ongoing revelation for 35 years. I was forced to rely on the gifts, especically prophecy, to navigate persecution, while allowing God to build His testimony in me. This, too, is entirely consistent with the bible, but not with man's teaching of it.

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    1. I myself have received 2 dreams that were discerned to be from the Lord, which did and still are playing out prophetically, though I dont hear from God in the audible sense as some in our church body do.

      Prove it.

      How did you discern that these were from the Lord? Why was Scripture not enough for you in these situations? How can you prove that these were from the Lord? How can you prove that they are "playing out" exactly as the Lord allegedly prescribed? What will you do if these alleged prophetic dreams prove to be false?

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    2. Prove it? It's ALL OVER the new testament! It was the very thing spoken of by Joel and reiterated by Peter, that God would pour out His Spirit on all, and clarifying exactly what this meant, He went on to say that this would manifest in dreams and visions. I dont need to prove it, its the bible!

      As for my own dreams, I am hardly unique in this manner. Pretty everyone in my church has dreams from the Lord and they seem to come in cohesive themes that play off of each other. When I had my dreams, I did not initially believe it was from the Lord for sure, but it was so vivid that I felt compelled to write it down and submit it to the body. At this point, I learned that others were having very similar and specific dreams (about flushing the defilement of the church at large) and those with the prophetic giftings and the gift of discerning spirits judged it to be from God before opening it up to the gift of interpretation, as is biblical to do. Most of these dreams have come true and then we tend to get new dreams as the new season approaches for following what God is doing.

      Mind you, I dont have the gift of prophecy nor speak in tongues, or even hear from God audibly in any sense. I wish God spoke to me that way too, but am thankful for the many other spiritual gifts He bestowed on me shortly after being born again.

      But if you want to judge something coming from our church and see prophecies playing out as they happen, here is a site from someone that gets accurate prophetic words and visions from God almost nonstop:
      http://www.shoutsofjoyministries.com/

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    3. Bet it never occurred to you that you were given these "dreams" by the father of lies did it? How convenient that all the dreams of the people in your "church" melted together. Do you detect a pattern here? No, I didn't think so. Deception is so very attractive, isn't it? I got caught in a cult of deception in my early years and I was lost, but thought I was hearing from God. His supposed instruction to me was called pure-bred sin by any other name, but I was hell-bent on seeing it through, just like you are. Wake up Craig and renounce your folly.

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    4. Darrel, I was once zealous for cessationism in the same manner that you describe, determined to crush every hint of spirituality that opposed my understanding of a God that no longer worked in the very ways the bible repeatedly lays out. I was a skeptic of skeptics and my journey out of cessationism began by attempting to refute the very prophet in the website I am referring to (shoutsofjoyministries.com). I came at her with accusations of "false prophet", clinging to the very same lies that you are espousing here.

      Time after time, her prophecies came true and she was leading many to true repentence, true relationships with God and bearing real fruit, and focusing on the orphans and widows for ministry, as God also instructs. This, along with God leading me to a better understanding of scriptures, began to unravel from mind those lies of men, that are being perpetuated here.

      Did it occur that to me that the devil can also bring evil dreams and visions? Absolutely! That is why the first stop was to take it to the body for discernment to test the spirits (flesh? devil? God?) as the bible instructs. But you would do away with entire portions of the new testament to fit your preset doctrines here.

      Does the devil also get into these churches that are functioning in the gifts? Absolutely, but the solution is not to sanitize the church (and what God is accomplishing) by quenching the Holy Spirit. The solution is to be following God's lead completely, through the difficult places and especially in repentence.

      In fact, the first church I began attending that practiced the gifts, I was frequently invited to a separate prayer from someone I distrusted, and I finally relented and attended. Keep in mind that I had already studied much on the dangers of contemplative prayer and a seemingly normal prayer meeting suddenly switched to mysticism about a half hour into as the leader began instructing people to clear their minds. I could literally feel the evil presence emanate from this prayer leader over the room and the Holy Spirit began to reveal to me things about the spiritual warfare that was occurring at this church, both the move of God through some and the move of the devil through others, and it eventually led to a church split. But in all of this, the solution is not to kick out God along with the devil.

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  13. I am that discouraged Christian. I have many friends whom God speaks to all the time, even telling them what to make for lunch. He doesn't speak to me like that. I despair and wonder if I even have any faith most days. I'm not a cessationist, I believe in the gifts.

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    1. How about grilled cheese and maybe some soup?

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    2. Yes, it is funny, but it's not funny when you are stuck in the middle of it and wondering what is wrong with you.

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    3. There is nothing wrong with you! Just keep reading your bible & praying. You are not a lesser Christian. You have the scriptures that is how God speaks to YOU. (check out this article for more: http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2013/09/18/why-do-we-say-god-told-me/

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    4. Comment for Anonymous: I believe that things we view as deficiencies eg not hearing from God the same way are His way off providing opportunities to trust Him, believing His Word and the promises He has made. Pray about God's promises and keep a prayer journal - You will see His hand at work in your life. (The above were key elements to overcoming depression in my life)

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    5. Anonymous, I know this is an older post, buy I really hope and pray that you see this. I myself have been in your shoes. Over the years very well meaning Christian sisters have been fans and followers of Beth Moore and hearing God's voice for guidance. I can't tell you how many times I have heard, "Oh, god gave me a word for so and so." Not only did I yearn and ache to hear from God directly, but I also wanted that particular "word" to be for me. Meeting after meeting I would sit through all these people getting encouraging words from these women and I would agonize over not being the recipient even one time. Of course these sisters would pray that I would be able to have all these wonderful advantages to hearing the voice of God. After four years of agony and almost crashing and burning in my faith I began to study the Bible more closely and also study the roots of the movements that led to this mind-set. I came to realize that God has actually protected me and kept me safe from deception. I praise Him for that. God jealously guards His Word, so much so that the second person in the Trinity is named "The Word." The Bible never tells us to go within or to listen to a voice within us. That comes from the New Age and that is the arena of the enemy. We can so easily be led astray. And I don't care what anyone might say, the idea of being able to hear from God directly with such personal words is a real ego booster. If one is honest, truly honest, a little pride comes into play when we can claim that we get direct words from God Almighty.

      Also consider this. Those in the Old and New Testaments who really heard the Word of the Lord were by far and large persecuted, shunned, isolated, attacked, and more often than not, killed. A true prophet was not very popular in the OT as they usually spoke repentance and judgement. Also the Apostles suffered the same. They were imprisoned, beaten and eventually martyred.

      God has (past tense) spoken through His Son according to Hebrews 1:1-2. The revelation is complete. There is great comfort in knowing that I don't have to sit and wait for someone to tell what God is saying to me. He has already said it.

      I am sure that if this is read it will raise protestations from many. But you, dear Christian, hold fast to His Word, the written word. There you will find the true voice of God.

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    6. Anonymous of February 1st, I am the anonymous who wrote the original post. Thank you for your post, I have felt exactly as you describe, yes, I know how that feels! I know too that you are right, and I'm holding on with all my might. Let God be true... Thank you, sincerely xx

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  14. Erin, perhaps instead of being "less pointed"' when you express your opinions, you should be more pointed---just a thought.

    As for all the folks dropping their dime here and claiming to "hear directly from God" please know that you are in the realm of fantasy, you've been lied to, and you like the lie you believe because it releases you to follow the deceitfulness of your own heart and mind. Beth Moore is a FALSE TEACHER whom God has never spoken to in an audible voice because He does not do that any more for ANYONE. Beth Moore teaches ANOTHER GOSPEL which is a LIE. But to many all that needs to be done is slap a "Christian" sticker on their lap top and they are magically in the "kingdom". Are you so gullible as to believe that just because Beth Moore claims to be a
    "Christian" that hears the audible voice of God that makes everything she says the "gospel truth?" Wake up!!!! She doesn't know the Jesus of the Bible or she would not make such ludicrous claims. She is a liar and gets her marching orders from hell. She is not a miss-guided believer who has gone astray, she is not a believer at all. So you like her lies? Keep on believing them and she will lead you through the wide gate that leads to destruction. Don't you realize that the bottom line of Beth Moore's "ministry" is more money? She talks drivel and nonsense most of the time, but always seems to leave a ray of hope in the heart of her hearers that maybe, just maybe I, too, may one day be good enough to hear the audible voice of God just like Beth Moore has. Fool! Are you crazy, too? Wake up and repent of the great evil that you have welcomed into your heart and mind. The hour is late and know that nearly ALL of those who teach in the evangelical realm and enjoy national prominence are false teachers and liars----and God hates liars. Now is a good day to repent of the narcissistic evil that has consumed you and seek the salvation offered by the Lord Jesus.

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    1. You add to scripture when you make the false claim that God does not speak audibly to His people any more. It is you that is duped and ignorant of the true ways of God and the bible. But just to make this obvious for the benefit of all, please lay out your biblical justification of your "extrabiblical stance", so that all may benefit from seeing just how unscriptural it actually is.

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    2. Actually, Craig, it is you who have to prove your ridiculous contentions. The only "proof" you have offered so far is wishful thinking: "it's all over the New Testament" Oh really where? What's happening here is that you want to justify your sin and lust for recognition from your peers in the spiritual realm you have chosen to walk in. The Lord Jesus does not participate in your games. What you demand that people accept only leads to more delusion, it in no way glorifies the Lord Jesus. Aside from all that have you never read what happens to a man that actually DOES hear His voice? Probably not, for then you would never have embarked on this quest to make people believe that God still speak audibly to men. Here's a hint: that hated what they were shown to be when confronted with the HOLY GOD. They wanted God to get away from them, not give themselves something to brag about (make no mistake about this, the bottom line of all of this is bragging rights). Today, many call this conviction of sin. You really want people to believe that you hear His voice? Then prove it by telling all of us just how big a sinner you really are. Are you up to that? Didn't think so. Granted, there will be a time when you will hear His voice and the way you are headed now it will be "Depart from Me, you who work iniquity, I NEVER knew you."

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    3. I didnt think you would actually be willing to refer to the bible to justify your position about the limitation of God's Word to the bible.

      You make some very terrible and inaccurate assumptions in every single post. I go into great detail of the lies I was living as a cessationist (yet not even a true Christian) whenever I give my personal and very public testimony. God took someone that was known for extreme sin and did a short turnaround that people in my ciricles talk about in perplexity with amazement.

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    4. Question Craig and Darrel: What do you want to achieve with this debate?

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    5. Acts 21:11; Mk 1:12; Mk 13:11; Lk 2:26; Lk 12:11-12; Jn 14:16, 26; Jn 16:7, 13; Acts 4:8-16; Acts 8:29, 39; Acts 10:19-20; Acts 11:12; Acts 13:2, 4, 8-12; Acts 15:28; 16:6-7; 20:23; 21:4; 21:11; 1 Cor 2:9-10, 12-13;

      To say that the Spirit doesn't direct His people is simply not Biblical. Audible? Bible doesn't really speak to that, and the ones I know who have heard the Lord lead them at some time in their life NEVER heard an audible voice. And I've NEVER heard anything from them that is bragging. Usually it was a very humble story that gave ALL the glory to the Father.

      If you say God can't speak to you, could it be that you have limited Him? I would say that most of the "God spoke to me..." stuff on TV is not the Lord. I would say it is not normal. However, I will not put the Creator of the universe in a theological box, nor mock those who may have a slightly different view then my own.

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  15. Wow. I think y'all should be careful about putting limits on God's ability and willingness to communicate His love and mercy to every human being. Based on what I read here, every single Muslim that has seen visions of Christ and been led to Christ through those visions is out to lunch and believing a lie. I guess people can only meet Christ through the written word, and if that's the case, are you all spending every penny you have to get the Word translated and distributed so people can hear from God the only legitimate way?

    Satan loves arguments and contentions like this among Christ followers, because it distracts from the urgency of spreading the gospel of Christ.

    We need to be careful! Not all gifts are given to every person, but each one according to the will of God, and we need to be VERY CAREFUL about judging something that sits outside our little box of comfort. God is not limited to moving the same way all the time. Nor is He limited to moving in my life the same way He moves in your life. If He were, He would be a formula and not the Most High God. He shows up in unexpected ways, and if we choose to put limits on how we choose to receive His love, we may miss out.

    Be careful of judging! Beware of limiting God.

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    1. Melodia, you're right when you say that "God is not limited to moving the same way all the time." But He is limiting Himself in His relationship with us to the ways that He has said He will move. It is not about what He CAN do, it is about what He PROMISED to do. He has currently promised to reveal Himself in creation and in scripture. There are no more revelatory gifts. (For now!).

      Arguments and contentions have always existed and they always will. No one likes them, but we are in a battle, remember, and sometimes it gets heated. They're going to happen. Why? We are exalting the holy name of Christ to a world that hates Him and is hostile to Him. Paul urged unity more than anyone but he was equally fervent in tossing out a false teacher from the churches. So there will be contention- especially between the wheat and the tares.

      Also, there is only one way to 'receive His love,' not lots of ways as you said, and that is through Jesus. (John 15:5, Rev 3:14, 2 Corinthians 1:20). So, since there is only one way to receive His love, you can say that in fact it is quite limiting. Narrow even. (Mt 7:13-14).

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    2. Amen Sister!!!!!! God is not limited and the enemy seeks to destroy!

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  16. I really don't know where to begin.
    What I get from some of the above comments is 1: The Almighty God, Creator of Heaven and earth, the Great Physician, owner of every Jehovah name there is (Jirah, etc.), has LIMITATIONS? (God IS limited in His revelation to us. - Elizabeth Prata.)
    2: My deceitful heart is wrong when it makes me realize just how much God loves and values me. (When we go beyond it (God's Word) we can end up anywhere our deceitful heart desires. - EBenz).
    3: I live in a fantasy realm, because the love that God has reinforced in my life through visions He has shown me are all lies. Therefore, God does not love me and the Bible is incorrect?(know that you are in the realm of fantasy, you've been lied to, and you like the lie you believe because it releases you to follow the deceitfulness of your own heart and mind. - Darrel)
    But the most ridiculous statement of all was by Ray Johnson. Where does the Bible say God speaks to men/women outside the Bible? How about Genesis (Abram, Isaac, Jacob/Israel, Joseph, Hagar). Exodus (Moses, Miriam, Aaron). Judges (Samson's parents). Any story of David. How about Saul of Tarsus? John the Revelator? If God does not speak to us outside His written word, you have to ignore what is written, since most of it was from outside written words. You cannot trust that Paul's preaching is true if God did not speak to him outside the scriptures. And John's vision on the Isle of Patmos, aka The Book of Revelation, must also be ignored. And if this is only a limitation that is placed after the occurances of the New Testament, then why would I ever worship a God that hasn't got the power to speak to me outside of the written word, when it is very obvious in today's society that the devil can do so. Is Satan more powerful than God? No way.
    God does use dreams and visions. The problem comes when we either take these to extremes, or (as in some of the well known preachers/teachers) we attempt to treat these exactly the same as God's Word. If you are given something from God, it does have to measure up to the standards of scripture. But to deny anything outside the Bible as coming from God? "Who gets the praise?" should be the first question you ask. Then does it line up with scripture. Then what does the Holy Spirit tell you? And although I said "tell" it does not mean audible all the time. Sometimes it is a nudge in our heart that says "this is not good". Sometimes He brings to mind a verse that shows how it is not good according to God's Word.

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    1. Why is it that charismatic types only talk about physical healing, or some new "revelation" given exclusively to them, or some "gift" (usually tongues which is not the real gift, but some unintelligible gibberish) or the latest "dream" or other such nonsense that never is compatible to the Word of God and yet it is demanded that any such thing receive the same level of recognition as the Word itself? Why do you never speak of repentance or of taking up your own cross daily, or dying to yourself, or of personal holiness before the God you claim to love and worship? It's always about gaining some new recognition for yourself, my dream, my gift, my new found ability, my status in my "church", my new book, and on and on you go. What happened to humility before the Almighty Who created you? Where is the gratitude for the forgiveness of your sins, where is the expectation of the return of the Lord? Why do you demand that others believe that you really do have a special relationship to God above that of the "common" believer? I don't expect you to understand this, much less agree with me, because the god of this world has blinded your mind so that you CANNOT see. What I am doing is called contending for the faith which you would destroy in those young and as yet too immature new believers who have not yet waded through the cesspool of lies you put forth and come out the other side believing the Bible and not your nonsense. You have rejected the Word of God as your only and final authority, so do not expect to be ushered into God's heaven. The key to salvation is found in the Word (Jesus Christ is the Word) that you have rejected, it does not reside in your imagination no matter how fertile and depraved it is.

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    2. It's interesting to me that the moderators haven't tried to pry apart your testimony and convince you that you've been deceived. Especially because I tend to agree with everything you say. It's what I was thinking through the entire thread.

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  17. The term "judge" has been used frequently in this discussion. One of the definitions of "judge" is to "critically decide upon." Is that not what Christians are called upon to do? In other words are we not to discern between right and wrong, between the godly and the ungodly, between the true and the false? We are told not to listen or give in to false prophets. To decide who is a false prophet means one has to make a judgement and this is biblically supported. As well, God is bound by His word and His word has been given in Scripture. He will not act contrary to what He has spoken and when we expect Him to do so, it is not limiting Him. I

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    1. I dont see anyone here making a case that God will contradict the Holy Bible in any way, shape or form. What I do see is God contradicting FALSE DOCTRINES that have been placed upon the bible

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  18. My name is Bruce, this is my first post; I'm not the anonymous from before. Some of the debate here is due to semantics. No one is arguing that God will speak a new addition to the Bible today. Likewise none of the Beth Moore haters are arguing that Holy Spirit can't or won't remind a believer today of a Bible verse. Or by extension, no one should argue that He wouldn't remind a believer of a Biblical concept either. This is all we mean by saying that God "speaks" today.

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    1. Yikes - I dont think any of us who disagree with Beth Moore's teachings would consider to be a "hater". That's a strong term. Christians are called to be discerning, but it's not hateful to expose false teachings.

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  19. For those demanding that more Scripture be provided to refute their erroneous beliefs, there were ample references given in the original post written by Erin, which you have rejected. For if you had received them you would have repented of your evil.

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  20. Hebrews 1:1-2 tell us that “God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world”. Jesus himself is the revelation of God to all humanity. While the bible is certainly revelation directly from God it is not a “perfect” revelation in that it is not a complete revelation. A full revelation of God Himself cannot be contained in a book(s) any more than a full revelation of Him could be contained in a “building made with hands” (the tabernacle). There are many things that Jesus did and said that are not contained in scripture. (John 21:25) Many of the apostles teachings were not recorded and writings/letters were lost before the canon could be completed.
    Certainly God reveals Himself to us primarily in and through scripture. He will always stay consistent with His character, actions and all revelation shown to us in His written word. He will never speak or reveal something to us that is not in complete harmony with what He has already revealed. The revelation of God that he has given us in written scripture is also fully adequate to judge weather or not a person has truly heard from God. However, Scripture itself tells us that that it is not a complete revelation of God in that God Himself revels Himself to us. John 16:13-15 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you”. Matthew 11:27 "All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
    Romans 1:20 declares that God has revealed Himself to us and even to unbelievers apart from scripture - “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse”. Also see 1 Cor 14:26 "What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church"
    There is also future revelation from and about God that has not yet been revealed. 1John 3:2 - Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is... 1 Corinthians 13:12 “For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known”.
    The abuses of the characteristic movement run rampant causing fear and trepidation among many in the church today. The reaction of some to retreat into the “safety” of extra biblical doctrines that allow for a church without all of the gifts is understandable.
    However the completed bible cannot contain a living God, moving by the Holy Spirit in the lives of individuals as He wills. We must not resort to explaining the scriptures in a way that reflects our own experience. In stead we must intently search Gods word first and than examine ourselves to see if we are wanting. As Mathew Henry put it...
    “If we flatter ourselves, it is our own fault; the truth, as it is in Jesus, flatters no man. Let the word of truth be carefully attended to, and it will set before us the corruption of our nature, the disorders of our hearts and lives; and it will tell us plainly what we are.”

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  21. What would you say to the thousands of Muslims who have come to know Christ through very specific visions, sometimes night after night? What would say about the billboard posted in Ramallah, West Bank that says, "If you have had a dream of a Man in shining white, call this number..." All of them recognize him as Jesus and are frightened to death to speak to someone about what they have seen, hence the billboard. (Check out Voice of the Martyrs for further examples) We need to get down off of our high, western-thinking horses and recognize that what God spoke to Job, He also speaks to us, "Where were you when I . . . ." In other words, "Who do you think you are to confine Me to your assumptions?" God's Word is true and holy but He is not confined just because our culture of control and pride and legalism has decided to include Him in its box.

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    1. I would say you best investigate what kind of church those Muslims were led to. I would say, even more importantly, that you ask them what the alleged "Jesus" said to them in the vision. What was the gospel call that was made? I would say that you ask them what the gospel is, and how it is that they know they are saved. A "conversion" story without a recognition and acknowledgment of sin, repentance of that sin, and faith in Christ alone (and thus a denial of all other false religious beliefs) is no conversion at all.

      "for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." (2 Cor 11:14)

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    2. Hi EBenz,
      I am a cessationist, but I read this thread and it brought a new question to my mind I had not previously considered. You argue that since all revelation from God is inspired that if people were to receive new revelation today we would need to add it to the Bible. Yet one of the posters here brought up the thought that Jesus spoke many things while He was on earth that we do not have recorded in Scripture. Obviously, as He is God in flesh all His words were inspired. Therefore does it not seem to logically follow that not all of God's words are included in Scripture, since some of Christ's own words are not included in Scripture? I could not answer this question in my own mind. Do you have insight on this?

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    3. Hi Anonymous,
      It's true that Jesus undoubtedly spoke many things that are not included in Scripture. And John tells us that "many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book" (John 20:30). But—does this mean that the words Jesus spoke which were not recorded were any less authoritative? Of course not! Thus, if we are going to claim that God is still speaking and giving revelation today, then we must treat those revelations as authoritative as God's words in Scripture itself. Unless, that is, we are prepared to argue that God only sometimes speaks authoritatively. And anybody who would attempt to argue that is a fool.

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  22. Wow. As a student of John MacArthur's Master's College, and Grace Community Church, this doctrine seems familiar from his book Strange Fire. I've been a conservative Christian since age 17 when I was saved and the Lord opened my eyes to the truth of His word. I struggle with this post because as a reformed theologian I have had personal experiences that obviously have been the Lord "speaking" to me. I have had prophetic dreams regarding people close to me in my life. They are continual. I've never understood the purpose other than the message in the dreams is truthful and fufilled in reality, therefore it is from God. (Satan cannot speak truth, 2 Tim. 3:16-17, God cannot contradict Himself). I can give specific examples that may freak some people out who would quickly condemn me as a false teacher or un-believer for these dreams. People who have never experienced God speaking to them through some form are quick to judge those who say God does indeed still "speak". I'm not referencing audible booming voices, but rather a soft still whisper in my heart regarding someone or something (I reference Elijah 1 Kings 19:12). Do I believe that someone like myself is a prophet and should be giving words to other people? No, there is no "revelation" needed for anyone these days apart from Scripture and I certainly do not look to these dreams as "added" words of God to Scripture (Revelation 22:19). But do I know that these messages He has allowed me to experience have been truth. I have mixed emotions on this subject matter because I know some dear friends of mine would write me off as a crazy person if I ever shared with them the spiritual gift I know that I have. I keep these things between myself and God, ponder them in my heart, and pray for the people and situations who are revealed to me. Here we have the theological debate, if things like this are "revealed" to me in my heart, how can I also believe that the Word is the final revelation (which I do)? I don't see the contradiction here, rather I see these things in my heart proved by Scripture.

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  23. I've been studying Moore studies for years, she's not been heretical or way off. Her speaking's are mostly Holy Spirit speaking to her heart, and always we need to weigh it with what the Bible says! She is really given herself to encouraging women to seek after God and study HIS word. We need to be careful not to bite and devour the good guys! No one is perfect but let's pray for her and encourage her in her work. The WORLD hates us all, let's stick together:)

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    1. How do you know it's the Holy Spirit speaking to her heart? That's the problem. There is no way to prove this. How do you know it's not just her imagination?

      Stick to the Bible.

      - C. Curtis

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    2. We can never know for absolute sure if it is the Holy Spirit directing us or not. But we can take what we think we've heard and put it to a few tests: Is it in agreement with Biblical Principles, is it true (as much as you could prove it so), and if it is a directive to do something, would you be doing it "for" Jesus (not Biblical), or "with" Jesus (Biblical).

      To think we never have urgings of the Holy Spirit leaves us to our own devices. And why would God not speak to us? I don't believe He will give us doctrine, but I do believe he speaks love and even guidance to our hearts. Even Paul was given instructions by the Holy Spirit on where to go and not go on his journeys.

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    3. I agree with Stacy. The Counselor, as the Holy Spirit is called in the Bible, was given to us with the very purpose of guiding our lives. Without the speaking/work of the Holy Spirit, we would not be convicted of sin. Instead of trashing Beth Moore, who firmly believes in salvation in Christ alone, maybe we should be thinking about how we quench and grieve the Holy Spirit by underestimating His work--HIS work--in our lives, and the lives of others.

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  24. Thank-You from my heart for posting this article complete with Scriptural references. You are correct in confronting the issues so well versed today amongst those who diligently seek the LORD'S will in obedience. Amonst those who are delving more and more into gnosticism/mysticism, there exists a phrase I hear often within these religious circles, and that is "I want what they have" or often I hear the boasting during "praise and worship" of individuals actually saying "This person wants what I have." This, "they want what I have" philosophy reeks of pride, arrogance, with plenty of boasting and bragging on the side; it strokes the religion of "self."

    I live amongst many women who highly regard Beth Moore as a legitimate Bible scholar; but here in lies the discernment factor: they also regard Todd Bentley, Patricia King, Benny Hinn, Paula White, Joyce Meyer, Jesse Duplantis, John Hagee, Jack Hayford, Bill Johnson, Mike Bickle, John Wimber, Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, Paul Crouch, Sid Roth, Joel Osteen, Rob Bell, "the Message Bible", Creflo Dollar, and Michael Brown in very high esteem as well.

    And when I ask these women, "Where do you find that doctrine, or that manifestation, or that prompting of Spirit in our Bibles, there is utter silence, for they cannot point to a solid verse that affirms their mystical belief system. " And please know, these women will loose their love for you as you do not follow their deceiving spirits.

    May God Bless you as you point us to the truth found only in Christ alone.

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    1. ..."And when I ask these women, "Where do you find that doctrine, or that manifestation, or that prompting of Spirit in our Bibles, there is utter silence, for they cannot point to a solid verse that affirms their mystical belief system."

      Matt 4:1; Mk 1:12; Mk 2:8; Mk 13:11; Lk 2:26; Lk 4:1, 18; Lk 12:11-12; Jn 14: 16, 26; Jn: 16: 7, 13; Acts 4:8-16; Acts 8:29, 39 (tell your pastor this happened to you, and see what he says); Acts 10:19-20; 10:44; Acts 11:12; Acts 13:2; 8-12; Acts 15:28; 16:6-7; 20:23; 21:4; 21:11(very compelling); 1 Cor 2:9-10, 12-13;

      Just because you know women who highly esteem Beth Moore and people known to be false prophets, doesn't mean she is one of them.
      How is it that you don't consider none of these "solid" verses?

      You proclaim that they are following "deceiving spirits", and accuse them of "pride". I suggest we all hold back on bold accusations, and humbly search the scriptures.

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  25. When God speaks, why not just act on it...rather than publicize it? I really don't understand all the great effort and time spent on telling the masses about her private interactions with God. Speak the Word! "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness." 2 Timothy 3:16 oh how we dumb down the masses when we pet and appease our flesh with all these self-reveling revelations. I agree that it was shameful to say the bride of Christ is paralyzed with unbelief. What about our brothers and sisters that live under constant threat yet hold fast to Christ...even in the face of martyrdom? Her stories, as captivating as they might be, are so irrelevant to those outside of her target audience.

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  26. I have heard Beth Moore say things related to "hearing a word from God" and I am not hear to either defend or judge her. God knows her heart. I DO think, in these "modern" times, that we have relegated the Holy Spirit to something that happened at Pentecost. I am NOT charismatic, Pentecostal, etc. However, to deny the work/speaking/etc. of the Holy Spirit in our lives, is to deny the work of a Person of the Trinity. Jesus said in John 14: 16-17--" And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor, to be with you forever--the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you know Him, for He lives with you and will be in you." And in John 15: 13-- "But when the Spirit of Truth comes, He will guide you into all truth." I do not believe that to say the Holy Spirit speaks to you (or me) means that we are trying to add something to God's revealed Word, or that is it an audible voice, or that God's revealed word is incomplete so He is adding something to it. I DO think it means that, if we choose to live a Spirit-filled life, that God, through what He has revealed to us in His word, and through the Holy Spirit who lives in us, can "speak" to us about what He would have us do. If you are saying that we cannot HEAR the Holy Spirit speak to us, then how can we HEAR the call to repentance and salvation?? I will be honest, occasionally I have questioned exactly what Beth Moore means when she says that. BUT, I have found her teachings to be biblical, and I believe (while as imperfect as anyone else) that Beth Moore is truly filled with the Spirit, and desires to bring glory to God and a biblical understanding of Scripture to those she teaches. Maybe our time would be better served looking at how we OURSELVES can live Spirit-empowered lives, and not nit-picking at some of the things Beth Moore says, since we do not know how God is working in her life.

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  27. Thank you for the information! just we need to be carefully from the false teachers. Pray to God so he can guide us to the right place.

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  28. I have never heard Beth Moore say that when God speaks to her that it is "inspired" revelation, equating it with Scripture. In fact, I have heard her say quite the opposite. I think she means that the Holy Spirit speaks to HER, and what he wants HER to do, based on what His will for her life is. That is different than making it seem like she is claiming to have direct, inspired revelation. Anything that any Christian teaches/professes should always be filtered through the truth of Scripture, for sure. Hate to see Christians "eating their own". Her biblical teachings have brought many to faith in Christ, many more than any of us on this blog. I think that is something we should praise God for.

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  29. Why is this either/or? One side or the polar opposite? One side says not to allow an experience to effect your theology, yet uses their lack of an experience as proof that such things don't happen.

    Admittedly, Beth Moore didn't come out with much that could be tested. If she did, it could be tested and then the Body of Christ could establish her credibility.

    Jesus was lead by the Spirit into the wilderness. Paul made mention of being lead by the Spirit. Jesus said that it is better that He go, because He would leave the Spirit to guide us into all truth. He didn't say that He'd leave us the Logos (word-Bible).

    Why can't we say, "Let's test this stuff, and see if it squares with scripture." Sure, we've heard about the guy who says God told him to leave his wife and marry his secretary. That doesn't pass the scripture test, and is obviously NOT the Holy Spirit.

    But, what if the Lord speaks to someone who has never heard the Lord speak to her, and she belongs to a church that teaches against such things. It is a strong, but not quite audible voice. She hears the Spirit not once, but twice compelling her to act in a specific manner. The lady is obedient, and is lead by the Lord to a remote location 15 miles away where she sees a family member is deep sin.

    What about the guy who almost never wears a seat belt when driving his car, but hears a voice telling him to "Put it on!"? Two miles after leaving home, he is involved in a very serious accident that totals both cars. These people don't go to a charismatic church. They don't speak in tongues, bark like dogs, or believe in the name it/claim it theology. Where did those voices come from?

    If it is not the Holy Spirit, do we tread on theological thin ice by giving the glory to something/someone else? If that was done for God's glory, and you say it wasn't God, because it doesn't fit into your theological box, are you really surprised that the H.S. doesn't speak to you? Are we being theological cowards by not saying, "I've never had this happen before, but it could have been God."

    Both of these stories are true! And there are others that I've had. I've never sought something like this. I certainly don't see myself as any better than the next believer. If I err in giving the glory to God, so be it.

    For those who say, "God can't talk to His people any way other than His word that is in scripture, can you give me a few scriptures to use as proof texts? Please don't send me to a "teaching" as I have seen too many people be deceived by teachings of men. I don't want to be the next one.

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  30. I commend you for publishing this warning about the error of Beth Moore's "personal revelations". A couple of years ago it was anounced from the pulpit of my church that some of the women were going to be conducting one of these "studies" and I was shocked. I talked with the woman organizing the study and she asked me to send her some research...so I did the next day. Silence.

    Since then, there have been two Beth Moore studies and I have had the displeasure of getting into a verbal tussle at a real Bible study with some Beth Moore followers over her pietistic doctrine. It was ugly and the claws really came out. My wife was shocked as she is from Israel and they don't have as much of a problem with the "celebrity Bible teacher" there yet.

    This is becoming a real canker to me in my church and I've finally drafted an open letter to them which I will publish on my blog at www.standtoministry.com under the title "A Call for Biblical Discernment". This battle is far from over. Thank you again for your article!

    Blessings,
    Andrew

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