20 June 2012

Being Catapulted Off of Your Pastor-Führer's Vision Bus

Earlier this week on Fighting for the Faith, Chris Rosebrough shared some disturbing audio from a 2007 Acts 29 church planting conference. In this clip, Mark Driscoll states (bold emphasis mine):
Here’s what I’ve learned. You cast vision for your mission and if people don’t sign up you move on. You move on. There are people that are going to die in the wilderness and there are people that are going to take the hill. That’s just how it is. Um. Too many guys waste too much time trying to move stiff-necked, stubborn, obstinate people. Um. I am all about blessed subtraction. There is a pile of dead bodies behind the Mars Hill bus (chuckle) and by God’s grace it’ll be a mountain by the time we’re done. You either get on the bus or you get run over by the bus. Those are the options, but the bus ain’t gonna’ stop. And, uh, I’m just a, I’m just a guy who is like, look, we love you, but this is what we’re doing. There’s a few kinda’ people. There’s people who get in the way of the bus. They gotta get run over. There are people who wanna’ take turns driving the bus. They gotta’ get thrown off (chuckle). ‘Cause they wanna’ go somewhere else. (Source)

Yes, you heard that correctly. If you disagree with the vision that God supposedly gave to Mark Driscoll, then he is prepared to run you over with his Mars Hill bus. Listening to the entire clip posted above, the reader will hear similar disturbing statements made by other pastors, including this recent clip of James MacDonald instructing pastors at his Harvest University event on 25 April 2012.

It is frightening to think that these audio clips reflect the thoughts and hearts of trusted pastors. Submit quietly, for if you oppose the vision you will be violently removed.

Further Reading
Blessed Subtraction
"We Can Work It Out:" Is James MacDonald Qualified to Have this Conversation?
"We Can Work It Out:" Is Steven Furtick Qualified to Have this Conversation?


  1. " Factious man " as described by James Macdonald... One who unashamedly contends with James and his edicts. James needs a gift... he needs a collosal mirror so that Dracula can take a peek at himself.

  2. I have been a member of HBC for well over a decade. I have a lot of concerns about the direction the church is taking under the current leadership. I know I should approach a pastor or an elder but frankly I am afraid I will get catapulted. I love the people I have attended church with for so long. We know so many other families. Our children have grown up together. I don't take leaving lightly. But truthfully, I am afraid to ask questions or even bring it up in my small group.

    I know, not the way church is supposed to be. Sigh...

    1. Anonymous,

      I am so sorry to hear of the struggle you're going through. At the same time, I praise God that He has given you eyes to see and be concerned over what is happening at HBC.

      I know it sounds trite, but you are not alone. Many people have gone through this same struggle in deciding to leave Harvest. I know of more than one person who did attempt to talk to the elders and were brushed aside and belittled. It is shameful that you are at a point where you are afraid to ask questions or express your concerns. You are right - it is not the way church is supposed to be.

      At the risk of sounding trite again, please know that you and your family will be in my prayers as you seek wisdom, guidance and courage from the only One who can perfectly provide these things.

    2. It is always hard to leave a church where you have a long history. My wife and I left the church where I was saved a few years ago when the self appointed "leaders" decided to oust the preacher for unknown reasons (I figured it was because of his Biblical and expository style of preaching which is despised by false brethren). A few years later I brought to the attention of "leadership council", as they called themselves, a teacher who was teaching multiple false doctrines-he was against the impeccability of Christ, taught a works salvation along with the idea that a saved person could "opt out" of salvation and though once "saved" would spend eternity in hell. My concerns were not just ignored, but met with threats of physical violence and being removed from their "church" by force. We never went back. Hard to leave? You bet. But necessary for our own spiritual well-being.

      Listening to false doctrine from a false teacher week after week is not good for the soul. It will cause stagnation of spiritual growth and make you an easy prey for the wicked one, not to mention a heart that cools off in it's fervor for the Lord Jesus. May the Lord give you great courage to do that which pleases Him and according to His will place you in a God fearing and God honoring church. Eph. 3:20 and 1 Peter 5:6&7.

  3. your struggles are heartbreaking and heartfelt because they are real and involve lots of relationships ~

    Just pray to the Lord of what he would have you to do and remember the TRUTH anonymous------Rom 8:15 "For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."

    With James MacDonald's statement --- So is James going to take this verse out of its context so as to use it in such a way that no one has the right to question any of his aberrant teachings or teachers? Is James going to make a sweeping generalization here so that "anyone" who questions him his authority is going to be considered a "factious" person? Would he say that even the Bereans were factious? I'm quite suspect of him since he's already embraced false teacher and heretic TD Jakes..

  4. Führerprinzip leads to Führerbunker...

  5. I firmly believe that the corrupting influence of Mark Driscoll on James MacDonald can be traced back to early 2010 when they shared a mission to Haiti and started CHC together. From there, they seemed to have greatly increased their time spent together (publicly anyways) through mutual attendance on the same conference circuit, extra-curricular activities during TGC council meetings and even speaking/preaching invites at Harvest. None of this bad in-and-of itself, other than the dreadful results. I blame the pastor-meathead for this recent trend of strong language from Pastor James (no not at worldliness, sin and the enemy) but at your very own congregation and brothers/sisters in Christ who dare ask questions.

  6. Boy I think I got of lightly. When the Baptist Church I used to belong to went Rick Warren in 2008, all I got was a threat I would be written off and ignored. I left a few Sundays after and now part of an Anglican Church were word and sacraments are properly handled.

  7. Let's be careful, everybody. Remember, he can see things, after all.

  8. "My elders." ... MY elders? Whose elders, oh great super-visionary-apostle James? They are not yours. They are in God's ministry alongside you, for God's glory and for the good (including teaching, encouragement, reproof, disipline, etc.) of His people.


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