19 April 2012

Perry Noble Misses the Point

In a post entitled, Four Problems the Church Has GOT to Deal With, Perry Noble writes:
#1 – We are answering questions that no one else is asking. 
I’m glad that we can debate theology and know terms that make us seem intelligent and cause other people to scratch their heads; however, at the end of the day people are not asking about the five points of Calvinism, the trichotomy or dichotomy of the Spirit or the peccability/impeccability of Christ! They are asking “why is my life falling apart?” Or, “how do I get past the fact that I was sexually molested when I was eight?” Or, “how do I, as a single mom, lead and provide for my family?” 
Too many people are so obsessed with their theological labels, I believe, so that they don’t actually have to do real ministry! (Source)
Note: Perry Noble's post continues, however, he chose to use some rather colorful language in a few places, so the reader is warned to be watchful of this if you choose to follow the link above. 
This goes back to the erroneous "Jesus didn't die for correct theology" argument. Yet, it seems as though Perry Noble is missing a key point. If a pastor is teaching the Bible, God's Word, then things like total depravity, justification, substitutionary atonement, the Trinity, the nature of God and Christ, etc. will come up. The church does not exist as a counseling center for people who are going through a rough time! Rather, the Church exists to preach the whole counsel of God, and to share with people the hopelessness of their lost, sinful state, and then to point them to Jesus Christ, who offers salvation from sin, death, and the righteous wrath of a holy God!

Noble says that people want to know "why is my life falling apart?" Or, "how do I get past the fact that I was sexually molested...?" The answer to these is to teach people about sin, and about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Newspring pastor notes that people are not asking about the impeccability of Christ. Perhaps not in those terms, however, a right understanding of the nature of Christ is necessary for salvation.

The seeker-driven model has always sought to address "felt needs," but has done so at the expense of the greatest need of all. What good have we done if we bolster the self-esteem of an abuse victim, but have failed to share with them the Good News of Jesus Christ and Him crucified for our sins? The root of every "felt need" is sin. Inevitably, if God's Word is rightly preached, sin will be addressed and "felt needs" will be dealt with in the process.

So, what is the #1 problem that the Church needs to address? In this writer's opinion, and to use the words of Phil Johnson, it may just be "worldly churches and hireling shepherds who trivialize Christianity."

16 comments:

  1. Amen. A concise response to a terribly misguided (at best) diagnosis of what is wrong with the Church today.

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    1. Amen to your statement that Noble offered a "terribly misguided (at best) diagnosis of what is wrong with the Church today." Sadly, his thoughts are reflective of many leaders within the seeker-driven movement.

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  2. Wonderful, wonderful response! I totally loved this post. Thank you so much :)

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    1. Thanks for the kind words, Elizabeth!

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  3. As for 'problem' #1, Perry, do you teach the folks at dayspring the wonderful truths found in the Word or do you just assume that because they go to dayspring that they just automatically absorb these things by osmosis? Or maybe your 'teaching method' is not to be dogmatic and definitive, but rather to encourage a 'healthy' debate not realizing that the Word of God was not given for us to debate but believe. One of the greatest wickedness in the pulpit today is when 'pastors' tell their 'flock' that it is not their responsibility as 'pastor' to feed the flock, but it is up to them to feed themselves. Wasn't that you who started that lie, Perry?
    #2 as you see it. Why do you set the standard of the church to worldly goals? Google, Apple, and Disney are three of the most wicked companies on earth with deep occultic ties, and roots. Jesus didn't give His best, He gave His LIFE---A HUGE DIFFERENCE THAT YOU SEEM TO BE UNABLE TO GRASP.
    #3. Perhaps the folks at dayspring are to busy to evangelize, but real born again children of God seldom pass an opportunity to speak of their Lord. While we are disciples, just what type of disciple are you making there at dayspring? those of Perry Noble or what?
    #4 This is my political opinion: preach the Gospel to small and great, expose sin and glorify the Lord Jesus Christ. In case your not keeping up with current events, Mr. Noble, we will likely have either a muslim as president for the next four years or a mormom---name your poison.
    The real problem in today's church is that most who attend are lost and most who stand in the pulpit are lost also. Got a solution for that, Mr. Noble, or are you part of the problem?

    Darrel

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    1. Thank you, Darrel, for doing what I didn't have time to do: respond to all 4 of Noble's points.

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    2. Darrell-- it's not DAYSPRING it's NEWSPRING. Get your facts right dude

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  4. I'm sick of people talking ill about my pastor perry noble who is a man of God. He walks with Jesus Christ as do many of the members at Newspring Church. The only reason anyone would think otherwise is because they have never attended the church. Jesus Christ is there every time we meet and lives are saved. We should be celebrating as followers of Christ. We are one church with many locations and we are all on one team. Every time an individual is saved, no matter what church they attend, the angels in heaven rejoice and so should we as the body of Christ!

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    1. It is regrettable that you put so much energy behind a man and his church. Having been to his web site and seen the drival that he passes off as Gospel I have no desire nor need to see his show in person. I am quite sure that there is always an emotional high generated every week and you likely believe that this is the "moving of the Holy Spirit". There is enough on the net displaying his false teaching and antics for any discerning person to conclude that the Gospel is not front and center of the meetings he holds. Does he ever preach the Gospel? Or are his speeches about money, church growth, relationships, marriage, sex, jobs, vacations, etc? Have you ever heard him speak of the cross, the resurrection, and the salvation bought by Jesus Christ. If so, please provide link. Does he ever teach of the utter lostness of all of mankind and the only remedy the Father has provided for this condition?--link please. What about the fact that a born again person is delivered from the power of sin and that his old sins no longer control him? Or does he just make you feel sorry for yourself that your old sins still have control of your actions-link? Has he ever told you of the hope that should fill your heart at the prospect of the return of the Lord Jesus for his church? What happens when your church remembers the Lord's death by having the Lord's Supper? Is your heart overwhelmed with gratitude that He saved you from your sins? Do you find a new depth of humility before your God because He saved you? Do you even celebrate the Lord's Supper? It is hoped that these words will help you understand that PN and others like him do not have your soul's best interest at heart, but look upon their 'flock' as merchadise to be used and thrown away. My late teens and early twenties were spent under the "teaching" of such a man. I was lost, he could not point me to Christ and when the money ran dry I was cast aside. Some forty years later the Lord saved me. Thanks be to Him for His everlasting kindness.

      Darrel

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    2. Anonymous,

      My concern is for the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and for the proclamation of the full counsel of God's Word. Unfortunately, these things often are compromised by pastors today. I do not seek to speak ill of Perry Noble as a person, but rather to speak against his erroneous teaching. I pray that you will begin to search the Scriptures, and test everything that you hear against the Word of God.

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    3. The Kingdom of God is the exact opposite of what Perry thinks it is. Jesus did not come to live a sinless life of persecution and endure a cruel death for someone's happiness..."Better Life". Instead of seeking the "better life", going into the kingdom is the exact opposite. We must realize we are absolutely wicked, deprave, and hopeless and must fall of the mercy of God in Christ. Matthew 5 verse 29 and following gives us a hint of the radical nature of this transformation. V29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell. These are the words of the Savior that Perry Noble claims he preaches about. Christ is not teaching some better life psychology nor is he teaching some works salvation. It is the 180 degree opposite. He is telling us to let go of everything our existence here has to offer. He is not giving homilies about some sadistic works way to get into heaven. The bodily elements he is describing have tangible significance. Our eyes lust after things of this world, our hands grasp temporary nonsense in this fallen place. Let go of it all and fall on the mercy of God found in the blood of Jesus Christ! Perry Noble's teaching knows nothing of this. He is trying to help you find a better life in this fallen place. You must realize we are passing through. Let go of it and know you have nothing. For example, someone's horizontal forgiveness of someone who molested them won't get you to heaven. That is about you and what Christ is saying is that it is all about HIM. This place is temporary, fleeting, perishable! It is very unlikely you will hear Perry preaching about destroying your life (as we know it) to enter the Kingdom.

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  5. One of your best posts, Ebenz. Stand firm.

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    1. Wow. Out of 1000+ posts, that's saying a lot. Many thanks, Anonymous. All by the grace of God, and all for the glory of God.

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  6. "My concern is for the Gospel of Jesus Christ and for the proclamation of the full counsel of God's Word"-I totally agree EBenz


    anon Apr 19, 2012 05:17 PM said, "Jesus Christ is there every time we meet and lives are saved.

    @anon--What Jesus-Perry Noble's Jesus? And what is Perry Noble's Jesus saving people from? Perry is not preaching the Jesus of the Bible but one that is from his own imagination who cannot save anyone.

    There's only one true Jesus and that Jesus is according to Scripture. Please open your Bible and compare the 2. There is a stark difference

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  7. It's worth quoting in context:

    "When it came to redeeming mankind Jesus did not search the back corners of heaven to find some under-challenged angel who had nothing to do…HE came, HE did it, HE paid for the sin of the world!!! HE GAVE HIS BEST…His followers should do the same!"

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